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1

Monday, October 20th 2008, 4:49am

Current State of W6

Now Ill put this out there right away. I am leaving world 6 so overall I could care less how much people think I am complaining and whining. Obviously if I am leaving I could care less...I just want to point out what a bunch of idiots have done. (Yes I intend to step on toes) Given my track record I think you can all consider my opinion on the matter as at least holding some ground, and as one of "the Borg" I know how you can manage controlling a whole world (at least people say I could).

In world 6 Px is already guaranteed victories. Now Im actually not even upset with Px doing this, I give them props for taking advantage of people in the right way and getting away with it. If people want to be used so be it, its their choice. Now to detail what I mean.

Look at Pxs allies and you will see: the 2 largest Christian orders, the 2 largest Saracen orders, and one of the larger Pagan orders (Px is the largest). These 5 allies, along with Pxs members account for most of the top players in the game. With these allies Px has only has to face about half the Christian strength of the world.

Another way you can look at it. Px is guaranteed their allies support, they are also pretty much guaranteed the rest of the Pagan/Saracen support. Mind you the only Pagan order that actually really went against Px once was VL, and VL is now an ally of Px.

Like I said bravo to Px for somehow convincing all these allies to ally with them. I say this because basically all of these allies, are not allied with each other, and if they are its only sections here and there. Because of this the allies can face each other, but they get no Px support. Because of this they have to sit out when some of their allies get attacked by Px. Because of this Px gets all the defensive and offensive help they need, or force any other possible opposition to sit out. Forcing orders to go against Px with maybe 1 or 2 allies showing, and they are lucky if they get that because Px has shown they dont mind hitting an order when one of their two ally supporters cant take part due to time restraints (ie one of the orders allies is attacked). At the current size of orders this means Px faces maybe 30 opponents guaranteed (and that if all the ally support shows). Px itself is already about the size of 30 members strong. Not only do they face a small amount guaranteed, but they face maybe 30 of the above 20 players that the Christians have to offer (I mean the ones not affiliated with Px in alliances).

If you really think about it Px is guaranteed victories (defensive or offensive), they only have a few orders they are guaranteed to pledge support too, and half the time they might even get to sit out of a battle.

Are all the allies of Px so dumb as to see that Px guarantees themselves victory and doesnt always have to return the favor? Twice now Ive seen Px let Sx get a defeat either because of timing issues or because it was two allies facing each other. What a great ally huh?

If Px wants easy victories props to them, they got it now. If their allies dont mind being used...by all means keep getting down on your knees, I doubt Px will mind. Personally Id like to see the few targets Px has disband...then what would the orders still around do touch themselves? Get your head out of the gutter not what I meant.

Anyways thought Id point out how many people are being used. Hope I annoyed a lot of people, enjoy blaming Gamble when hes gone for all your problems as I still get blamed for things.

Love the friends I had, the rest can suck my...well you know what.

Gamble

2

Monday, October 20th 2008, 9:55am

Gee, and I just thought the uber-tixxers were the only problem in W6.

I think the ally situation will be obvious to Px's allies after they all take a few more losses, Gamble. When people start losing because one of their strongest allies always sits out due to alliance conflicts, something will give eventually. Either all of Px's allies will form alliances, creating a new Borg that rivals what dominated W4, or else some will drop Px and find some other decent ally instead, keeping W6 a little more fluid.

At the same time, too, the tendency as worlds age is for the many, many smaller orders that first start to consolidate into larger orders. Which orders fold, which orders expand, and which players end up where will have a lot of influence on how the world shapes up.

I only take casual glances into W6 and am not playing there seriously, but I sometimes wish I had time for more than just W4. At least in terms of the numbers by faith, the Pagans and Christians are pretty evenly matched, and the early alliances also seem not so drawn along faith boundaries. W6 could still run awry, but it looks like it has the potential to remain a very lively world if players stick around.

And even if Px's current alliance situation is folly for the world and for Px's allies, as W4 has shown, when people finally want to change a world, change will come, and W4 has certainly transformed, as have other worlds before that, I hear.

Sain Cai

Unregistered

3

Monday, October 20th 2008, 4:23pm

I dont have the patience to read the whole post thoroughly, but it looks as though you are saying PX gains support from its allies in full force, but send basically nothing to its allies. This isnt OX's fault rather their allies. If they are dumb enough to keep sending people and not get support in return, I would drop them.

My wager is they are afraid that PX will attack them, along with the other dim witted orders that havent wised up.

Ashurnasirpal

Unregistered

4

Monday, October 20th 2008, 10:50pm

Gee, and I just thought the uber-tixxers were the only problem in W6.
quote]

That is correct blert, the "Uber-Tixxers" are the main issue.

However, Gamble has correctly predicted the responce to his speel; yes Gamble, you are a winger!

Now, why is poor Gamble winging?

Because his order, In God's Name, of which he so overpredicted it prevalence, lost a battle to Px.

When World 6 began, it was the great Gamble who so promoted IGN, prophesying a great many victories and eventual prevalence over the world.

This would be just like LG in World 4.

However, a former member of LG had come to World 6, and devised Px, which grew much strong, and eventually beat IGN in a battle.

Now, as we all know, Gambles temprement and hatred has stepped in and he has had a good old rant about how horrible Px has made World 6, when it is still fresh in our minds how he lauded it over World 4, using the united power of LG as a tool to be able to treat whomever he wanted, however he wanted.

However, i feel that Judgment is controling the order in a much more gentlemenly manner, and id not using the orders power to cover lies and blackmail.

And anyway, your whole point about the world being destroyed by how many allies Px has is rubbish.

My group of mercenaries have never, and will never be aproached to join as allies with Px.

My aim is to be a mercenary, and i get our team hired in every battle.

And there are many more like us, growing in prevalence as to the outcome of battles.

So Gamble, you are, and always have been a winger, and i am glad to see you go as i find you rude and demanding.

Sincerly, Ashur.

5

Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 12:08am

First I never said anything about what Px was doing was wrong, I told them congrats on what they have accomplished. I also said I was pointing out that though having Px as an ally might seem great for the allies that it has they can get screwed for the alliance too. Thats all I was trying to point out. Also Ashur when the **** did I ever say IGN was going to have victory after victory and dominate world 6? I even told Achilles (pretty sure) that I didnt expect my order in world 6 to be undefeated. I figured we would get beat many times throughout world 6. My goal was to make an order that would stick together and try to keep a winning record/bounce back from those defeats. As you saw in world 4 a good group of the Christians either changed orders or turned to mercing. (Not trying to bash on them as I got along with many)

Yes the borg did a great job of dominating world 4 I wont lie, but at least we tried to shake things up to balance it out. Eventually with the disbanding of LG I think things did balance out to an extent at least. Do I think Px will kill world 6...honestly no, however I do think they guarantee themselves victories while their allies dont get guaranteed victories. Like Sain-Cai said thats their allies fault then, fully agreed. However that doesnt stop me from pointing it out. Ive always felt that if an ally cant return what you can give them, then why keep them as allies. HaG didnt stay an ally long when they picked 20 tickets over helping us out. After Dragon sat out two of IGNs most important battles I didnt feel it was worthwhile to help them out when they wouldnt return the favor when we needed it most...yes I dropped them.

Ashur your a whiny little ***** that will blame me for everything and say Im a **** because LG hit Wrath ONCE. You didnt mind demanding help otherwise, heck even the main Christian orders like KT, OMEGA, and CK got hit multiple times by LG and they didnt whine nearly as much as you did when we hit you...once. Needless to say you are one of the people that can suck my you know what and Im glad you didnt like me because I didnt like you either. If your gonna insult me in the forum or anywhere else at least make arguments that matter, because like I said here and in my previous post props to Px for getting what they have in allies so dont say Im complaining that we got one defeat...OMG a 2-1 record is gonna end my life....then again it seems your first defeat with Wrath ended yours.

To everyone that had to read me insulting Ashur sorry you had to read it. I hope you enjoyed.

Gamble

panda_666

Unregistered

6

Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 7:34am

gamble i love you and dave but like rambo says {you drew first blood} on dave and made him very upset...and it started a holy war....and you two worked together in our order in w4 for a while and you guys were both doin what we would do to others there, but here you guys are battling against one another, i dont know..the whole situation needs to go to dr phil or sally...dont take offense to this, you aer my boy blue..i just think if you and him became allies in the beginning things would be peaceful...love panda....LG lives on forever bro :thumbup:

Ashurnasirpal

Unregistered

7

Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 7:50am

Ok,

1. I did not mention WRATHs defeat in my post or judgment of your character.

2. I dont see how i have in any way sucked your ....., and appologise for my politeness.

I think your post just accentuates your pesonality Gamble, thanks for clarifying my point to the veiwers.

The Missing Rum

Professional

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Location: Dorset/Norfolk England

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8

Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 9:20am

and about allies not getting Px's support.
if 2 allies are fighting, its well known you shouldnt be taking favourites, mercing or staying out is what is normally done.
and when allies are not fighting they are always there.
It isnt just fighting for allies either, they show up for lots of pagan orders, big or small. i think Px is just what pagans in W6 needed like it was with LG in W4

9

Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 10:28pm

Ok, let's talk a little bit about W6 and analyze the situation. I will start saying that I wasn't very decided to come in W6 at least NOT as christian but pagan until I heard Gamble and other honorable players are in W6 Christians. I wanted to come and work together with these people I admired in W4 but because they are pagans and I am Christian in W4 that's why I couldn't work with them there. So, I changed my mind and signed in again as Christian, otherwise if they were Christians and I was pagan I couldn't see any change at all. Gamble you are one of those for which I came in w6 but you are the only one till now for who I lost all my respect. The story as I see it is very simple:
1) the w6 started - beginning
2) Gamble started as Christian with the hope of making a great order like LG in W4. He planed that quite well bringing in some friends like Black Wind, Cerno, etc - good planning
3) The advertisement for the new order was amazing, even I was fooled that they will be the strongest, the fastest, the new unbreakable force of W6 - very good advertisement
4) The problem started when the same Gamble believed that only because of him LG was so strong and he can do it again anytime - arrogance
5) Few other Christian orders were founded and asked IGN an alliance (I know about Dragon and Ronin) but Gamble refused - proud
6) Gamble refused any alliance under the pretext that he must wait and weight and see which one should chose because he wants only the strongest, the fastest, etc - superiority
7) a second problem to this arrogance was that Dragon and Ronin looking for powerful allies had to ask an alliance with Px, both being refused by the most powerful Christian order at that time. Strangely (but not for me!) both these orders became larger than IGN - the situation changes
8) Gamble asks an alliance to Dragon but this alliance was ONLY with the purpose to defeat Px. When he sees that this dream doesn't become true because Dragon doesn't betray his allies, he gave us 24h ultimatum to drop the alliance with Px or he will drop us. - foolishness
Now seriously, how could he even imagine that we drop an alliance under his pressure? Only for this reason and I wouldn't do it. Let it be clear for everyone: Gamble is not running W6 as he wants and this makes him very uncomfortable. I am very happy that Black Wind and Cerno are now leaders of IGN because otherwise IGN was falling down and really fast. I believe these 2 new leaders will bring IGN to life and IGN will become again a strong force in W6. I need IGN to be there and I salute this new leadership because I know them from W4 and I know they are wise. I don't know whether Dragon and IGN will be allies or not but we both need each other, that's clear for me.

Returning to our story the real problem why gamble is pis.sed off is not because "some idiots" (his words) did something to w6. I think that what HE did is the real problem. He played a card by attacking Px and he lost the game. And he lost the game not only because Px is so strong but because he ALWAYS was superior to all christians in all possible meanings, he refused alliances with the strongest christian orders counting that ELITE will supply the necessary power to defeat everything. Guess what? ELITE is Px ally, so another mistaked Gamble did. Practically IGN is not completely but partially isolated and that because of his attitude. Now he is pis.sed off. His words from the end of his post shows clearly to everyone that: "Love the friends I had, the rest can suck my...well you know what." These words demonstrate his attitude problem and I don't even think they should be more commented.

Oh...I talked to much about Gamble and IGN and forgot to say something about w6 :D... The W6 is maybe the most equilibrate world so far. There is no unique tixxer which dominates the entire world as was Mage or Lillian in W4. Px is maybe the strongest order in W6 BUT Px is only one pagan order. The christian side has at least 3 strong orders: Ronin, Dragon, IGN. I am sorry that TROOPER disbanded but the players are still in the game and they will be useful in many battles for the Christian side (I am assuming they will contribute more to the Christian wellfare). So again I see somehow an equilibrium. The main problem of W6 is that there are too few orders and too few players. Maybe most of the players from previous worlds became too bored to join this world too. The alliances are maybe a problem because they will not allow a direct confrontation between these strong forces but on the other hand I will remind to everyone that any alliance is for protection of your own order. I don't care if Gamble likes or not my allies as long as they help me in battles. And as far as I can say till now Px helped me much more than IGN. (There are some IGN members who helped Dragon in our battles, I will not deny it and I will not skip talking about this help. As I said, I think Dragon, Ronin and IGN need each other anyway. I thank to those IGN members who supported us, but honestly Px help was much stronger and it didn't resume to few members). So, as long as this help is mutual I don't see the problem. The only problem I see is that the title of this topic should have been: How Gamble lost the power in w6 by wrong moves and bad attitude.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Angel of Light and Dark" (Oct 22nd 2008, 12:47am)


10

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 4:39am

Ok, let's talk a little bit about W6 and analyze the situation. I will start saying that I wasn't very decided to come in W6 at least NOT as christian but pagan until I heard Gamble and other honorable players are in W6 Christians. I wanted to come and work together with these people I admired in W4 but because they are pagans and I am Christian in W4 that's why I couldn't work with them there. So, I changed my mind and signed in again as Christian, otherwise if they were Christians and I was pagan I couldn't see any change at all. Gamble you are one of those for which I came in w6 but you are the only one till now for who I lost all my respect. The story as I see it is very simple:
1) the w6 started - beginning
2) Gamble started as Christian with the hope of making a great order like LG in W4. He planed that quite well bringing in some friends like Black Wind, Cerno, etc - good planning
3) The advertisement for the new order was amazing, even I was fooled that they will be the strongest, the fastest, the new unbreakable force of W6 - very good advertisement
4) The problem started when the same Gamble believed that only because of him LG was so strong and he can do it again anytime - arrogance
5) Few other Christian orders were founded and asked IGN an alliance (I know about Dragon and Ronin) but Gamble refused - proud
6) Gamble refused any alliance under the pretext that he must wait and weight and see which one should chose because he wants only the strongest, the fastest, etc - superiority
7) a second problem to this arrogance was that Dragon and Ronin looking for powerful allies had to ask an alliance with Px, both being refused by the most powerful Christian order at that time. Strangely (but not for me!) both these orders became larger than IGN - the situation changes
8) Gamble asks an alliance to Dragon but this alliance was ONLY with the purpose to defeat Px. When he sees that this dream doesn't become true because Dragon doesn't betray his allies, he gave us 24h ultimatum to drop the alliance with Px or he will drop us. - foolishness
Now seriously, how could he even imagine that we drop an alliance under his pressure? Only for this reason and I wouldn't do it. Let it be clear for everyone: Gamble is not running W6 as he wants and this makes him very uncomfortable. I am very happy that Black Wind and Cerno are now leaders of IGN because otherwise IGN was falling down and really fast. I believe these 2 new leaders will bring IGN to life and IGN will become again a strong force in W6. I need IGN to be there and I salute this new leadership because I know them from W4 and I know they are wise. I don't know whether Dragon and IGN will be allies or not but we both need each other, that's clear for me.

Returning to our story the real problem why gamble is pis.sed off is not because "some idiots" (his words) did something to w6. I think that what HE did is the real problem. He played a card by attacking Px and he lost the game. And he lost the game not only because Px is so strong but because he ALWAYS was superior to all christians in all possible meanings, he refused alliances with the strongest christian orders counting that ELITE will supply the necessary power to defeat everything. Guess what? ELITE is Px ally, so another mistaked Gamble did. Practically IGN is not completely but partially isolated and that because of his attitude. Now he is pis.sed off. His words from the end of his post shows clearly to everyone that: "Love the friends I had, the rest can suck my...well you know what." These words demonstrate his attitude problem and I don't even think they should be more commented.

Oh...I talked to much about Gamble and IGN and forgot to say something about w6 :D... The W6 is maybe the most equilibrate world so far. There is no unique tixxer which dominates the entire world as was Mage or Lillian in W4. Px is maybe the strongest order in W6 BUT Px is only one pagan order. The christian side has at least 3 strong orders: Ronin, Dragon, IGN. I am sorry that TROOPER disbanded but the players are still in the game and they will be useful in many battles for the Christian side (I am assuming they will contribute more to the Christian wellfare). So again I see somehow an equilibrium. The main problem of W6 is that there are too few orders and too few players. Maybe most of the players from previous worlds became too bored to join this world too. The alliances are maybe a problem because they will not allow a direct confrontation between these strong forces but on the other hand I will remind to everyone that any alliance is for protection of your own order. I don't care if Gamble likes or not my allies as long as they help me in battles. And as far as I can say till now Px helped me much more than IGN. (There are some IGN members who helped Dragon in our battles, I will not deny it and I will not skip talking about this help. As I said, I think Dragon, Ronin and IGN need each other anyway. I thank to those IGN members who supported us, but honestly Px help was much stronger and it didn't resume to few members). So, as long as this help is mutual I don't see the problem. The only problem I see is that the title of this topic should have been: How Gamble lost the power in w6 by wrong moves and bad attitude.
Ill work down your points.

2. Never had the hopes that it would be like LG, in fact as I told Ashur, I expected there to be many losses throughout IGNs career.
3. I never advertised the order...so dont know where that plays in with me
4. I have never once thought LG was strong only because of me. I myself was one of the worse players for my level and always admitted it. The strength of my members helped a lot. Our allies were also just as important, I worked a lot with Falco and Moth throughout the alliance taking and giving suggestions among us, without our allies LG would have been just another speck on the radar. Did I play a factor to LGs success in world 4, Id like to say yes, but I have never once said or believed it was only because of me.
5. I went about alliances the same way I did in world 4. They are only worthwhile if they prove to be worthwhile for both parties involved. LG picked up picked up only DWL and S-B right away and that was because of reasons I thought would be worthwhile and they proved to be. BoW came soon after but with same reasons. HaG and Ronin respectively did down the road, and DIE even farther down the road. I rejected many alliances in world 4 and did so in world 6 because I was going the same route. Each person is allowed their own route.
6. I never asked you for an alliance. I messaged you about an attack on Px (the one that happened) never once in the pm did I mention an alliance with Dragon. Ronin, Sov, and Cx OMs can vouch for that because they got the same exact pm as you did. Afterwards you led me to believe (whether you think so or now) that the only way I could get Dragon support in the battle was with an alliance, I regrettably agreed to it because my other leaders thought it was worth it. I told you myself that I did not want the alliance yet, but you would be given the chance to prove your worth because of them. Oddly enough you proved your worth by sitting out in the battle, to me that showed me you were about as useful as the stuff that comes out of my butt.

11

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 4:39am

(continued due to size restraints)

I attacked Px because they were the strongest order in world 6 and needed to be tested, why is that a bad card to play. I expected them to beat us down the road, was I happy how the first defeat from them occurred, not really but only get half of one ally isnt exactly much fun. I have never once said I was stronger than all Christians, as I said many times throughout my time in the game I am no where near being the strongest player in the game. I also never expected ELITE to provide all the help that I could get, I trust their OM and quite a few of their members, that along with their strength is why I picked them up as an ally. Never once did I expect them to be the full guarantee to a victory. And them being allied with Px happened before I picked them up so obviously I knew about that issue beforehand and still deemed it worthwhile. As far as being pis.sed off...Im actually quite happy since I am leaving HW. Being pis.sed off and not liking people are two different thing, even people I dont like in RL can suck my you know what, doesnt mean Im pissed off all the time just that I have no respect for them. Everyone has attitude problems I just might show mine a little more.

I dont know the showing of Px members in the first battle you had, but I know a lot of IGN showed up, me being one of those. Afterwards we dropped you before your next battle so how would you expect us to give you support as allies? You had sat out two of our most important battles, one of which you led me to believe that you would help us out once we were allied. Shows me that Dragon will backstab you if it benefits them. They obviously dont mind getting Christian support, but once Px hits a Christian order they basically say screw you we dont care about your support. And how can I lose power I never had and never expected to have?

Heres my take on you since you put your take on me.
1. W4 started
2. You were put in charge of Ronin who was allied with LG
3. You dropped LG as an ally and picked up Mages VV figuring LGs constant help means nothing compared to a tixxer/cheaters order.
4. Mages order goes to shambles especially when Mages account is blocked and a few members are deleted.
5. Allies of LG attack Ronin and LG helps those allies beat Ronin because they are allies (you knew this would happen when you dropped us)
6. LG finally takes on Ronin and beat them (mind you this was a long time after you first dropped us)
7. You held a grudge because LG supposedly used you when we could and then said screw you...even though...omg you were the one that ended the alliance.
8. W6 started, and you told me about your grudge...how am I supposed to trust someone as an ally when they dont like me and think I am a backstabber?...so I told you I couldnt ally with you for the time being
9. Even though we arent allied when MuM attacks Dragon, even though we arent allied I tell IGN members it would be good to show our support...figure it can help our relation.
10. I mention the planned attack on Px, you lead me to believe that with an alliance you would be able to support IGN...so IGN allies Dragon
11. Dragon then allies Px knowing full well what IGN had planned and basically says haha screw you.
12. Time goes by and I call you an idiot in the forum so you complain.

As Ive said before I can be a d1ck, but I know it. I am straight forward with you and tell it how it is. At least IGN has shown full support to its allies, ask SoV, Cx, ELITE. Even Trooper could tell you though we had to sit out when Elite hit Trooper.

Let me reiterate again because the guys that dont like me seem to keep thinking these things.
1. I never expected IGN to be another LG
2. I give props to Px for what they have accomplished. Am I jealous, sure why not, but am I pis.sed that Im not where Px is right now, not at all.
3. I never have thought I am the best Christian...many of them could kick my butt tixxer or not.
4. Do I have an attitude problem...probably but everyone does...if I dont like you do you really expect me to be buddy buddy with you? If your like that with people you dont like then thats your choice but I dont have to be.
5. I didnt lose power in the game and thus become pis.sed. I cant lose what I never and never planned on having...therefore I am also not pis.sed about losing something I didnt lose or have.

Stop complaining about me in this post. The point of it was to point out the idiocy of all the interfaith alliances with Px when most of the allies arent even allied. LG/BoW/S-b/DWL only worked so well because they were all allied, and had maybe 1 or 2 outside allies. Plus we never hit those outside allies unless we couldnt help it because we didnt want to cause problems. If you dont like me pm me, or else when you criticize me in public at least set your dirty laundry out for everyone too. Dont try to act all high and mighty making it look like I am the only bad person there is. I have my faults no doubt...but so do you.

Gamble

Lord of Misfit

Unregistered

12

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 4:50am

Px are suporting, whait we are not a ally and thay support hmm, this is a wrong picktur. Thay dont support allys and support friends??
Got sudentli a crasy Ide* thay have a reasen? too not support. oh that whas a willd one!
Gamble! LG? remeber that one??

Lord of Misfit

Unregistered

13

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 5:49am

Whait a min. Its no way thet is the real Gamble!!!!!!!!!
Dam I hate sitters, I hate acont sellers and acont robers or what ever you call them :cursing:
I dont like this chatolic exsorsisme thingy, but omg HW realy have a need for one of them!!

Black Wind

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14

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 5:01pm

The W6 is maybe the most equilibrate world so far. There is no unique tixxer which dominates the entire world as was Mage or Lillian in W4. Px is maybe the strongest order in W6 BUT Px is only one pagan order. The christian side has at least 3 strong orders: Ronin, Dragon, IGN.


:rolleyes: I was going to stay out of this thread, but are some things being misrepresented that need to be clarified.


I am not exactly sure what "equilibrium" means to you, but I do not see it in W6. Of the 3 strong Christian orders you listed, 2 are aligned with PX. What I do see is that PX has assembled the 2 largest and strongest orders of all three faiths. These 6 orders have about 35% of all the top level players in the game (70 members who are level 20 or above at last count) and almost 150 players. Of the Christian orders not aligned to PX, you can add up the top 10 (IGN, Cx, SOV, SPQR, G, ROYAL, Y, HK, KT, and KH) and you will see the numbers are roughly (36 members level 20 or above) and total membership of almost 150 members.

In short, no matter what order (Christian or non-Christian) PX attacks, their base numbers will completely dominate the battlefield. Once pagan volunteers show up and mercs are accounted for, there is not one order or group of alliances in W6 that can stand against an attack by PX or their allies. I always thought "equilibrium" meant balance. Maybe you can explain to me how the consolidation of so much power within one group means balance.

Interestingly enough, it is even worse if they attack pagans and absolutely dismal if they attack saracens (although there really are only 2 saracen orders of note and both are members of the alliance).

Now, before anyone starts to flame me for being a "winger" (whatever that is), I am a Christian in W6 because I wanted a challenge. I want to know the flip side of what I did in W4. Gamble, Cerno and I figured that W6 would start out dominated by pagans (and heard rumors of a strong Saracen contingent) -- and that was our deciding factor for both joining W6 and for becoming Christian. And to clarify one more thing... if we wanted to remake the "borg"... we would have been pagan.

I admit, I love being a Christian in W6. I love the challenge that this world provides. And, just between me and you, *whispers* I think I can overcome that challenge. ;)
*fades like a dream at dawn*

15

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 6:03pm

OMG Gamble you are still keeping the grudge from W4. I thought this topics referes only to W6!!! I will tell you one more time that the way you see what happened in W4 is wrong not by the facts told (which are true) but the way you biased everything. It was me who wrote you about the problems between us in W4 before LG disbanded and I have explained you everything before w6 started. Even more, after we exchanged some PMs I apologized to you for everything and I told you I reconsider my position because anyway LG not being any more it made no sense to continue it and I might be wrong. I thought we settled everything out in w4 and (I repeat it) you were one of the persons for who I came in W6 to work with. I understand to be reserved but it wasn't that, you just kept your grudge against me and bringing back the past demonstrate this clearly. Now let's put an end once and for all to the w4 problems we had:
I have never complaint for dropping the alliance with LG. Military speaking it was a mistake but the situation dictated it and I would do it again any time. I enjoyed even more NOT being part of the borg in spite of all the losses you were talking there. There is one thing you can't take from anybody even if you beat him to death: honour. I have written and described you the reasons and I thought I was clear enough. Ronin in w4 was on the point to disband because all high level players left to VV. Raidon left and asked to give us the donations and to disband. I said I would like to continue with Ronin. After Raidon left and sir Nicholas became inactive I was the only high level in Ronin. There were few middle levels left (Mangle, Scandic, etc) and other few low levels. That was all Ronin. Nobody knew the real situation except us, and of course we couldn't say it openly at that time otherwise we were dead. The only hope for us to survive was to try some merging and the most natural merging was with VV because there were most of my comrades. I was negotiating with Mage the alliance but this should have been only the first step. The only condition Mage asked and was stubborn was to drop LG. I had no choice and I did it, fully knowing that this might be a great mistake. And if you want I admit it, it was a military mistake as we lost one very powerful ally and immediately S-B and BoW. But I felt much better fighting against you rather than with you and I have never ever complaint about that. After Mage was banned I have successfully made mergings with PHD, TKoS and with OB (immediately after I stepped down from OM but this was also my plan). I changed the Ronin politics and transformed it into a pure Christian order supporting all christian orders in almost all battles. We fought those days like crazy spending a lot of resources on healing and not building up stats, but the friendships I made are lasting even today. Currently, Ronin maybe are not the best in w4, but it is a strong order and I am proud of it. I rebuild it from dust and I am not sorry for any decision I took. My annoyance (it wasn't even a real complaining) to you before LG disbanded was that LG fought against us EVERY TIME they had the chance. You guys stubbornly didn't want us win not even against orders with which you had no connection. That was all I was saying and all this annoyance dissapeared when LG disappeared. I can't believe you remembered and started talking here about 6-months old stories about W4 in a topic about CURRENT state of W6!!!

So, let's go back to W6. You did help me against MuM and I wasn't deny IGN support any second. I even thank to all those IGN members who did it in the previous post, please read it more carefully. I will personally return the favour to IGN BUT NOT WHEN YOU FIGHT AGAINST AN ALLY. I can't possible imagine how I let you believe that we will support you only if we become allies. As I said, I believe that christian orders should work much closer and I wanted to support you all the time BUT NOT WHEN YOU FIGHT AGAINST AN ALLY (I repeat myself sorry but I have to make this clear). I told you exactly that I am negotiating with Px an alliance and I cannot go against them. This alliance with Px it is YOUR FAULT because if you had accepted our alliance from the beginning I would probably didn't ask Px to become an ally. You KNEW about it when you accepted our alliance. You just hoped that you will make first the alliance with us and then immediately declare against Px, forcing us to go against Px. You would have accomplished 2 things: my alliance with Px would have been less probable and you would receive our support against them. To be honest in that situation we would have helped you because we were forced so, but later when hopefully the Px alliance were still accepted we would have ended up in the same situation. I only see here not the fact that we backstabbed you, since when sitting out a battle between 2 allies means to backstab one of them? but your tryings and failures to use me and Dragon. You declared war to Px in the same day but it was already too late, because it was after Judgement accepted the alliance with Dragon about YOU KNEW ALREADY IT WOULD HAPPEN! So stop complaining about it, as you did the same with TROOPER and IGN will do the same in the future in all battles between 2 allies. DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING WHEN YOU DO THE SAME. To make you feel better I am telling this in public I will personally help IGN when I can because I think that Dragon, Ronin and IGN should work together as sister orders. But please don't blame me for my allies when it was you in fact who pushed me to go to them. And I DO NOT BETRAY MY ALLIES.

I didn't complain about you in my previous post. I was just telling how I see the things in W6. If I wished to complain about you I would have done it in PMs but you open up an interesting topic and I just subscribed my opinion.

Ok, I am sick and tired of your lies, I will just emphasize one paragraph you wrote because contains so many:
"I attacked Px because they were the strongest order in world 6 and needed to be tested, why is that a bad card to play. I expected them to beat us down the road...." wow, do you really expect somebody to eat this? So you wanted to test Px? Well then why this so much sorrow when they beat the sh.it out of you? They just passed your test, you should be happy. You expected to be defeated? HAHAHA never heard somebody lying so much, so IGN was a suicide order? then tell that to W6: IGN was a suicide order!... or... maybe you should do something really good and just leave the game as you said. It's the best thing you can do and I thank you for this.

It is only one point you were right: I am an idiot, but I am idiot because I believed I could work with you. I hope you see here my subtle remark that you were wrong even here: I am not complaining you called me an idiot I support your point...hahaha

16

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 6:06pm

Dear BW, you are one of the players I admire most in this game and I will answer you with pleasure. In my post I made an analyze from 2 points of view:
1) considering the players, separated from orders and alliances because these can change from one day to another. That's why I said there is no domination of only one single tixxer as Mage was. Both christian and pagans have their own tixxers
2) considering the alliances I said clearly it might be a problem because these will not allow a direct confrontation among the strongest forces but the main problem I repeat is the lack of active players and too few orders. These are the real problems in W6. With who do you want to ally if not with the best orders. In fact this is EXACTLY what Gamble told me when I asked an alliance with him. He said he must wait and see who is the best... I also allied with the best. Now I am an idiot for that...

But players can change orders every few weeks and the alliances last as long as they last and usually are not forever. So I will not consider what happened in W6 yet a big non-equilibrium. I would call this the fervent of a new world which just starts to take a shape. As any process in the beginning there is a non-equilibrium which then makes to appear a lot of mechanism to re-establish the equilibrium. We could talk about a big non-equilibrium in few months from now on if nothing changes, yet is too soon. If you lost a battle it IS NOT a big non-equilibrium.

And regarding the numbers of players you mentioned, that would be a good reason to meditate for, but I also want to point out that at the battle between Dragon and VL in spite of the big non-equilibrium you talk about the camp lists showed it is not quite true. I had christians which came against us, and many others which didn't show up at all. Finally, many pagans which are not allies supported us, saracens also joined both camps and we won but the battle was closer than many was expecting. I just want to say that the calculations from the paper and the battles are not the same. If we were so powerful as you suggested then we should have crushed VL but it wasn't quite so. I just believe that Gamble is exaggerating a little bit too much over the topic because his own mistakes. That's all.

17

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 7:23pm

I never held a grudge in world 4. I think you did however because you say LG went against Ronin every chance we got. This is where you dont know the full situation as I may not have known the full situation within Ronin (Ill admit I dont know everything and may take thing one way when someone else takes them another...this being apparent in why IGN allied with Dragon). LG had to change our politics for awhile once Ronin dropped LG because with Mage the world became strongly faith based. Because of that LG had to help support Pagans and Saracens in order to gain their support. If you didnt expect this at all then I dont know what you would have expected. Obviously I didnt have much of a grudge either because if I had I would have attacked Ronin right away or soon after you dropped us, but instead we didnt attack you till long down the road...when you were retired. I only mentioned W4 because in my opinion you have held a grudge against me from W4 since you felt I sent LG against you every chance I could. If I remember right you even accused me as the reason why S-B and BoW dropped you soon after you dropped us. That was their own choice.

I never said I thought you would only support us in general if we were allies. I was led to believe that in the first Px battle you would only support us if we became allies. (Neither of us will back off what we thought the message was that was relayed...like I said we obviously both took them different ways) The idea of backstabbing us is that as I said I took it as we ally with you you support us...you instead added Px right when they accepted even knowing the issue. If you had been in my shoes thinking that you had my full support because we just allied and then I allied with the target I dont think you would have been too happy either. Also you say I forced you to go to Px for an alliance, I cant force you to do that, especially when I said we probably would become allies, but I just needed to see how things went first. If I forced you to approach Px then you make it seem like you would have forced me to ally with you (ally with Dragon or they will ally with Px...sounds like a threat). I definitely wasnt using you, but again since we both took the whole reason of the alliance differently we wont come to an agreement on this part either. As for the Elite vs Trooper I was not happy to be sitting out and not supporting an ally. That was the first time in my whole career as an OM that I had to have my order sit out of an allys battle because they were facing another ally. You can ask Jabbar or Sturm I was really not happy about the situation.

As for the paragraph about me lying...the reason I was upset about them beating us was how it was done. They merced neutral allies against us and timed it so that we could only get half an allys order of guaranteed support. As Ive never merced neutral allies and never timed a battle where an order doesnt lose as much support as I do I was upset. Ill admit I cant expect everyone to give me the same courtesy, but it hurt that it came from one of my ACs from W4. How does expecting to get defeats make me a suicide order? By saying I expected defeats means I didnt expect to go undefeated like LG did in W4. Thats completely different from a suicide order. Last I heard suicide orders are orders that attack orders that they are completely outnumbered in numbers, stats, level. They also usually hit an ally to an order that is engaged in another battle. Last I checked IGN didnt do that. Again I stress...expecting defeats doesnt mean we suicide. As far as I can see there are no lies within that paragraph.

Loki1

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18

Wednesday, October 22nd 2008, 11:46pm

As for the paragraph about me lying...the reason I was upset about them beating us was how it was done. They merced neutral allies against us and timed it so that we could only get half an allys order of guaranteed support. As Ive never merced neutral allies and never timed a battle where an order doesnt lose as much support as I do I was upset. Ill admit I cant expect everyone to give me the same courtesy, but it hurt that it came from one of my ACs from W4. How does expecting to get defeats make me a suicide order? By saying I expected defeats means I didnt expect to go undefeated like LG did in W4. Thats completely different from a suicide order. Last I heard suicide orders are orders that attack orders that they are completely outnumbered in numbers, stats, level. They also usually hit an ally to an order that is engaged in another battle. Last I checked IGN didnt do that. Again I stress...expecting defeats doesnt mean we suicide. As far as I can see there are no lies within that paragraph.


Sorry Gamble but I will remind your attack on JEWS with LG here. it was motivated as a personal attack on a single player which could have been construed as bullying. You attacked when nobody should have been on and engineered it so that nobody would merc for us. Your argument here is slightly hypocritical in this light.

And yes I have a long lasting memory of an incident that hurt me personally.

Bigger Phil

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19

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 2:36am

Big Phil has left W6- Turn out the lights. I have given my account to a very capable player :-)

Phillip

cerno

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20

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 2:39am

Big Phil has left W6- Turn out the lights. I have given my account to a very capable player :-)

Phillip
you was in W6?

21

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 4:06am

Sorry Gamble but I will remind your attack on JEWS with LG here. it was motivated as a personal attack on a single player which could have been construed as bullying. You attacked when nobody should have been on and engineered it so that nobody would merc for us. Your argument here is slightly hypocritical in this light.

And yes I have a long lasting memory of an incident that hurt me personally.
The driving force yes mainly was personal, wont deny that, Im not perfect Ill admit it. I didnt know about the timing issue for you guys as LC usually was always on when I was so I figured someone would be around, if not sorry. Im not sure how I engineered it so that nobody would merc for you guys as I didnt threaten anyone if they merced for you guys, but again sorry if thats how it seemed. As I felt we ended world 4 on a good note (I could be wrong), I hope you know it was never meant as personal between you and me.

illyrian

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22

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 10:40am

ok a lot of stuff is discussed here that does not necessarily pertain to the topic of this thread.

Gamble,

i truly hope you won't take my post the wrong way. You know how much i respect you as both my leader in w4 and most importantly as one of the dearest of friends that i had the fortune to make in HW, so again i hope you will take this as it is intended to be - simply my take on this issue. Granted i am not 100% up-to-date with the politics of W6 but the problem here is simple:

You are not happy with the configuration of the alliances. Px being strong by itself + having implied pagan/saracen support due to pagans/saracens supporting each other even when not allied + being allied with 2 of the 3 strongest xtian orders make Px unbeatable at least on paper. I would like to make 3 points about this.

1. IGN managed to beat them once therefore while Px has a formidable stand in w6 is not unbeatable and this is a fact

2. You also need to look at how this started and put yourself in other peoples shoes to try to better understand what happened. I cant speak for W6-Ronin but since you know i am friends with erialc/contrarian, i know a thing or two about what happened with Dragon:
Dragon was founded somewhat later than the other powerhouse orders in w6, not only that but they were attacked within 5 hours of them being founded leaving them to quickly strike deals both official and unofficial with other orders to avoid an immediate loss, which they successfully avoided. Partly because of starting late and being attacked (preventing another 12 hour order admission / expansion) left them in a critical position with 5 members if i am not mistaken and no allies. In the meantime you were already allied with SOV and Heaven. When asked to ally with them, you told them to wait and see. Now what would you have done if you were AoLaD and contrarian? hold all your hopes in you and wait? I do not know how your personal relationship with AoLaD is but at least i know that you and erialc in w4 worked closely together, and in w5 we were all camping together, so you telling Dragon's leadership that you would rather wait send them a strong signal that you did not fully trust their leadership/order organization capabilities to forge an order that would reasonably equate to yours and thus getting a "fair" alliance deal. Again, despite you personally knowing Dragon's AC.
Dont get me wrong i am not judging your course of action, but at least you should understand that it is more than normal for them to search allies somewhere else once their first choice (that being you) told them "not now but i might give you a call later if i so chose to". Dragon approaching Px doesnt surprise me either and it shouldnt surprise you. You brought cerno and BW along as the core of IGN because you value their potential and you trust them, AoLaD and Px's AC are in the same order in W4 and not only that but she is AC there as well and he was one of the longest leaders of W4-Ronin so undoubtly they trust each other and feel comfortable working with each other as well (this is me being objective, you know my feelings about that individual but again thats beside the point AoLaD is the OM and eventually he has the final say on who he considers worthy of working for so to each his own).
So if we agree that Dragon allying with Px was a more than understandable event, we should also agree that there was no reason for Dragon dropping Px after you told them that you would ally with them. what exactly did you want AoLaD to do, tell Achilles and Ria: hey guys sorry but you were my backup but Gamble now decided to pick us as allies so go screw yourselves??? Allies should not be ranked, if you have more than one ally you should treat all of them equally.
I'm afraid this is what you did not do, for some reason you felt the need to believe that you had the right to tell Dragon's leaders what and what not to do which goes beyond ally formal duties. the formal duty of an ally is to support allies if they fight against a non-formal ally and sit out if 2 formal allies fight between each other. period. all other is cortesy. Dragon fulfilled their role as allies by sitting out in 2 of your battles, furthermore they fulfilled their role by not giving Px a heads up that you were going to declare on them. Px saw nothing wrong when Dragon set out and Px lost their first fight against IGN. why do you?
I should also add that you dropping Dragon is a move that only harms you since now if you face Px, Dragon will fight against you rather than staying out of it.

3. there are 2 "schol of thoughts" when it comes to creating alliances: 1. ally only with your faith 2. forge a cross-faith alliance system
apparently you went for 1. whereas Px went for 2. It seems that if one or more order forges a strong cross faith alliance it is almost impossible to beat by just allying with your faith. however in a strongly faith balanced world like w6, 2 is very hard to maintain. as you pointed out, xtian orders that give their support for free or peanuts to Dragon will soon be peeved when Px comes after them and Dragon either sits out due to being allied to both or worse is forced to fight for Px if not allied to the xtian target. on the flipside pagan/saracen orders will cry foul when Dragon/Ronin goes after them and Px (who they support for free or peanuts) will fight against them. Your claim would have validity if the current allies of Px keep losing or cant win major battles due to their choice of alliance with Px. but if it works from them now, more or less, why are they idio.ts?

23

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 2:27pm

I am not even going to begin to answer this topic :P

Loki1

Unregistered

24

Thursday, October 23rd 2008, 10:06pm


The driving force yes mainly was personal, wont deny that, Im not perfect Ill admit it. I didnt know about the timing issue for you guys as LC usually was always on when I was so I figured someone would be around, if not sorry. Im not sure how I engineered it so that nobody would merc for you guys as I didnt threaten anyone if they merced for you guys, but again sorry if thats how it seemed. As I felt we ended world 4 on a good note (I could be wrong), I hope you know it was never meant as personal between you and me.
Gamble I have never held anything personal against you and even helped LG out a couple of times. We are on friendly terms as far as I am aware.

I was merely pointing out the similarities in your tactics to those of PX which made this part of your argument slightly invalid.

Atropos

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25

Friday, October 24th 2008, 2:15am

I do not play W6, but the situation you have outlined was falcotron's dream- a web of alliances making oneself unassailable. I hope that he is glad someone achieved it, wherever he is. :) As for an unstoppable force in battle, you ran one and now you face one- the tables do turn, lol

26

Friday, October 24th 2008, 6:00am

As for an unstoppable force in battle, you ran one and now you face one- the tables do turn, lol

I have quit HW as a whole, and will quit even checking the forums soon too, so I dont face it.

I agree it is quite similair to the Borg of world 4, but when people accuse me of just being jealous and such, which I am not, I would like to point out a few differences between the Borg, and what is going on in world 6. The Borg didnt have soo many top players. It wasnt all of the largest orders, there were many Christian orders, GoA, AoM, JEWS to name a few outside of the Borg. It also only covered 2 faiths, granted Ronin was allied for a bit, but even when that happened Ronin became a smaller order and the alliance overall was short lived. In world 6 Px and its allies are the 6 largest orders...2 of each faith, it has many top players. LG and its allies at least kept it a fair playing ground for its opposition, Christians could unite with Christians or anyone could unite against us. The borg could have easily been forced into defeats, its not my fault that it wasnt.

As Ive said before if Px wants guaranteed victories congrats to them, if their allies dont mind being used congrats too (obviously they wont think they are being used because everyone likes to think they run the show). As Illy said, yes IGN was able to hand them a defeat, but factor in these things. Elite wasnt allied to Px, and IGN merced them, VL wasnt allied and helped out IGN, Dragon sat out, and Ronin didnt have a great showing. I went to bed the night of the battle knowing that the battle could turn out either way, granted I was hoping for a victory but the stats were close so it was hard to see a clear victor. Now Elite and VL are allied to Px. If this had been the case before things might not have turned out the way they did.

My overall point of the post was to get across the point that the allies of Px are getting used to an extent...some more than others. Ill admit this is my own opinion and some agree, obviously not all. My view is probably this way because my view of an ally is that they should be able and willing to help out when their ally needs them the most. In world 4 I showed up for all of my allies battles unless my own order got declared on at the same time, and they always showed up to my battles unless they betrayed us (HaG, which got dropped). I never ran into conflicts between allies until world 6, and it wasnt a fun situation in my opinion.

Ill leave this possibility for thought. Hypothetically what if Elite attacked Dragon. I know this wont happen because Dragon and Elite get along (probably more so since I know Dragon would have considered dropping Px as an ally if Elite picked them up...Dragon can deny it all they want which obviously they will, but I know its true). But anyways back to the possible thing. Both would lose Px and SoV help. Cx and Sx would support Elite, Ronin would support Dragon. Now you cant even fully base in faith relations because many people arent happy with Christians being allied to Px. However a good chunk of Pagan or Saracens would still help Elite, either because of faith relations, or because they want to get in good with the merc order. Granted you cant quite tell who would win the battle, but whoever loses will have the seeds planted that they lost because their allies didnt show up. Ive seen more than enough situations throughout all the worlds where this has happened. This causes problems and eventually backstabbing and betrayal accusations start getting thrown around like little boys at a Michael Jackson party.

Rethinking my stuff maybe my overall issue isnt the allies of Px, but the alliances in general of W6. There are sooo many conflicting ones that things become troublesome. I understand the allying with people you trust and know, but if everyone did that there would be next to no battles, and the few there would be would be small. If I had followed the that route I would have allied with Sx, Px, Ronin, Dragon, Trooper (when it was around), VL, and Elite...to name the ones that I know of offhand. Achilles/Judgment and I had talked about a possible alliance down the line so yes I do know that it would have been possible. Sx Ive always gotten along with Odin/Blasph so it could have happened, and I know some people within VL who allied with SoV so I dont think they would have outright said no to a possibility (granted Im guessing at that).

If this was the case where everyone allied with friends then I agree with everyone that says Holy War should be renamed Holy knuddle. It would be like a new e-harmony where everyone kisses in the SB or talks about their current real life problems. The hardest challenge of an order would be to find their inactives and kick them from the order.

Sain Cai

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27

Friday, October 24th 2008, 7:50am

With all the super long novels for posts I am missing the point.

What exactly is the gripe about?

28

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 2:06pm




I agree it is quite similair to the Borg of world 4, but when people accuse me of just being jealous and such, which I am not, I would like to point out a few differences between the Borg, and what is going on in world 6. The Borg didnt have soo many top players. It wasnt all of the largest orders, there were many Christian orders, GoA, AoM, JEWS to name a few outside of the Borg. It also only covered 2 faiths, granted Ronin was allied for a bit, but even when that happened Ronin became a smaller order and the alliance overall was short lived. In world 6 Px and its allies are the 6 largest orders...2 of each faith, it has many top players. LG and its allies at least kept it a fair playing ground for its opposition, Christians could unite with Christians or anyone could unite against us. The borg could have easily been forced into defeats, its not my fault that it wasnt.



LOL at this point

If the "Borg" didnt have so many top players i wonder where were they ?( . No offense but this paragraph has to be the joke of the year 8o

Bigger Phil

Unregistered

29

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 5:14pm

Greetings All:

In W6- i never got into the politics...I was too busy just finding a SF. Gamble- I have a lot of respect for you in the game- I feel you gave up too quickly. Things change over time-- W2 and W4 are great examples. Patience is the key to not getting upset over this GAME or giving up too quickly. Eventually- just like W4---- people get bored if there are no challenges. Things would have changed.

Phillip

DemiGod Subarna

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30

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 5:48pm

Gamble, you forgot to mention the hundreds of 4 and 2 xp plunders that happen in W6! And it's spreading to w5 :thumbdown: :cursing: :!:
Subarna the Divine Warrior ,Ex-OM of PACT The Berserkers in World 5
Yudhishtir - Joined W6 on the 23rd of October
"Go with the Flow!!!"

31

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 7:08pm





I agree it is quite similair to the Borg of world 4, but when people accuse me of just being jealous and such, which I am not, I would like to point out a few differences between the Borg, and what is going on in world 6. The Borg didnt have soo many top players. It wasnt all of the largest orders, there were many Christian orders, GoA, AoM, JEWS to name a few outside of the Borg. It also only covered 2 faiths, granted Ronin was allied for a bit, but even when that happened Ronin became a smaller order and the alliance overall was short lived. In world 6 Px and its allies are the 6 largest orders...2 of each faith, it has many top players. LG and its allies at least kept it a fair playing ground for its opposition, Christians could unite with Christians or anyone could unite against us. The borg could have easily been forced into defeats, its not my fault that it wasnt.



LOL at this point

If the "Borg" didnt have so many top players i wonder where were they ?( . No offense but this paragraph has to be the joke of the year 8o
The Borg may have had a lot of the top 100 players, or whatever, but they didn't have the top few - in terms of stats at least... Atropos, LoM, PMage, Lillian... the top players by stats have never been in the Borg... They did have a lot of top levels, and a lot of good players, but never the very top people... :P Which is probably what Gamble meant... Because Px and their allies have a lot of tixxers... maybe not the biggest ones, but probably more tixxers than the opposition and neutral mercs can raise... although this might have changed since I left W6 a few weeks back... :whistling:
Here once more... I can't shake this addiction... ;(

illyrian

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32

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 10:20pm


The Borg may have had a lot of the top 100 players, or whatever, but they didn't have the top few - in terms of stats at least... Atropos, LoM, PMage, Lillian... the top players by stats have never been in the Borg... They did have a lot of top levels, and a lot of good players, but never the very top people... :P Which is probably what Gamble meant... Because Px and their allies have a lot of tixxers... maybe not the biggest ones, but probably more tixxers than the opposition and neutral mercs can raise... although this might have changed since I left W6 a few weeks back... :whistling:
from an objective perspective i dont quite agree with you Diablos, for the longest time LG when The Kurgan was active he was one of the strongest players in w4. Also when PMage was the strongest character by far, Lillian and BadCo were... hm...how can i quite put this... LG inclined? :D Atropos was in friendly terms with LG for a long time in the beginning as well. dunno what LoM was doing but i dont care, he was a nobody at the time, in fact he was a nobody for the longest time, until the summer 1 tixx 2K gold special came and for some reasons that i cant quite comprehend he became one of the strongest people. actually now that a long time has passed since then, other people are catching up to him...dunno...i guess we have to wait for a xmass special so that his genius shows up again :D

but anyways the borg could have been beaten..would have been extremily hard and one of the toughest things probably done in hw history but it could have been beaten. anyway that's w4 :D

cerno

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33

Saturday, October 25th 2008, 11:59pm

You are all crazy!

34

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 12:06am

From Gamble:
"Dragon and Elite get along (probably more so since I know Dragon would have considered dropping Px as an ally if Elite picked them up...Dragon can deny it all they want which obviously they will, but I know its true)"

Unfortunately for you Gamble this lie with the purpose to create tensions in our alliance has no success. The leadership of Px knows very well this is a lie, at least Grace, who is AC and she is one of my friends. Just as a simple proof Dragon is now allied with both Px and ELITE and we will not drop any of them. So if you think this would have worked, maybe you will find another more dishonorable lie, because this one is a failure.

And because of this lie I will not answer you anymore, I will save my time for more important matters. Good bye wherever you are.

To illy: thank you for explaining so correct the situation in w6, you did it maybe much better than myself because if I had done it most probably I would have biased everything even if I had no intention to do it. I never thought that my strategy is so transparent :( I guess I have to be more carefully in the future... otherwise I will have no surprise element for anybody ...

I would like to make only one short comment. We, christians tried many times to defeat the borg alliance and maybe the best try was done by Lillian when she attacked LG. There were in this battle involved on one side all major christian orders plus some pagan/saracen ones (I don't remember which one were exactly but I discussed at that time with Lillian and she told me exactly which were involved) and the borg on the other side. Still no succees. The borg could have been beaten ONLY by Ronin, because only Ronin were still allied with DWL, and it was the only chance to defeat either BoW or LG when DWL were to sitt out. But I couldn't do it at that time (I wanted a battle against BoW) because we were not yet sufficently well organized and when I felt I could do it (in the last week when I was still OM in Ronin) we were attacked. The battle I wanted to demonstrate that the borg could be defeated or if you want to call it, my dream was over even before to start. I had to leave the game because some RL problems and I couldn't declare against BoW. It should have been declared at the same time when I declared against ROME in W3 with MM. Both battles were scheduled at the same time, unfortunately I could not afford to declare against BoW with no money for mercs (which were spent in the previous defence). I think only Falco knew that Ronin is the key for a strong opposition and he kept us as allies to give a chance to a possible real threat to the borg. But of course, most probably I will never know the thruth and the reasons why he kept us, this is what I believe.

To Diablos: maybe you should read what Vedauwoo posted in the past... it seems you didn't read that otherwise you will not say such false things. Please read:
http://forum.holy-war.de/board/wbb_en/in…dark&#post98583
He made a clear evaluation of top 100 players and how many were not in the borg (because it was simpler that way :D )

To Bigger Phil: I agree with you.

To Cerno: sorry, Gamble said I am an idiot :D you guys should put yourself in good agreement as you were in the same order... now I see how bad organized were the borg members... :D (just joking)

35

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 1:27am



The Borg may have had a lot of the top 100 players, or whatever, but they didn't have the top few - in terms of stats at least... Atropos, LoM, PMage, Lillian... the top players by stats have never been in the Borg... They did have a lot of top levels, and a lot of good players, but never the very top people... :P Which is probably what Gamble meant... Because Px and their allies have a lot of tixxers... maybe not the biggest ones, but probably more tixxers than the opposition and neutral mercs can raise... although this might have changed since I left W6 a few weeks back... :whistling:
from an objective perspective i dont quite agree with you Diablos, for the longest time LG when The Kurgan was active he was one of the strongest players in w4. Also when PMage was the strongest character by far, Lillian and BadCo were... hm...how can i quite put this... LG inclined? :D Atropos was in friendly terms with LG for a long time in the beginning as well. dunno what LoM was doing but i dont care, he was a nobody at the time, in fact he was a nobody for the longest time, until the summer 1 tixx 2K gold special came and for some reasons that i cant quite comprehend he became one of the strongest people. actually now that a long time has passed since then, other people are catching up to him...dunno...i guess we have to wait for a xmass special so that his genius shows up again :D

but anyways the borg could have been beaten..would have been extremily hard and one of the toughest things probably done in hw history but it could have been beaten. anyway that's w4 :D
True Illy, many were LG inclined... and I agree, LG did have some of the more powerful characters back then... And many were friends to LG... Equally though, I'm sure that many of them could have been persuaded to fight against LG for many reasons...


To Diablos: maybe you should read what Vedauwoo posted in the past... it seems you didn't read that otherwise you will not say such false things. Please read:
http://forum.holy-war.de/board/wbb_en/in…dark&#post98583
He made a clear evaluation of top 100 players and how many were not in the borg (because it was simpler that way :D )
He looked at the top 100, and knocked all the mercs / Borg players off that list, not just the Borg... Clearly, I can't say exact numbers for mercs, but many of the top people would have fought against the Borg for enough in-game gold... But no way did people like Atropos not exist back then... However, Sori and Vash are on the list, despite being mercs... so who knows?
Here once more... I can't shake this addiction... ;(

kitkatkev

Intermediate

Posts: 296

Location: Kansas :P

Occupation: Private Security

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36

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 1:54am

what dose borg meen hellp me out heer plz ?(
I'm not insane!!! I am voluntarily indifferent to conventional rationality. :thumbup:


Someone once asked me if I suffer from insanity...I said "No, I enjoy every minute of it!"

Gendell W2 Level 122
The Haunted W4 Level 117
Maximus Decimus Meridius W3 level 105
Gendell2 W5 level 105
Forge W6 Level 101

37

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 1:57am

From Gamble:
"Dragon and Elite get along (probably more so since I know Dragon would have considered dropping Px as an ally if Elite picked them up...Dragon can deny it all they want which obviously they will, but I know its true)"

Unfortunately for you Gamble this lie with the purpose to create tensions in our alliance has no success. The leadership of Px knows very well this is a lie, at least Grace, who is AC and she is one of my friends. Just as a simple proof Dragon is now allied with both Px and ELITE and we will not drop any of them. So if you think this would have worked, maybe you will find another more dishonorable lie, because this one is a failure.

And because of this lie I will not answer you anymore, I will save my time for more important matters. Good bye wherever you are.

To illy: thank you for explaining so correct the situation in w6, you did it maybe much better than myself because if I had done it most probably I would have biased everything even if I had no intention to do it. I never thought that my strategy is so transparent :( I guess I have to be more carefully in the future... otherwise I will have no surprise element for anybody ...

I would like to make only one short comment. We, christians tried many times to defeat the borg alliance and maybe the best try was done by Lillian when she attacked LG. There were in this battle involved on one side all major christian orders plus some pagan/saracen ones (I don't remember which one were exactly but I discussed at that time with Lillian and she told me exactly which were involved) and the borg on the other side. Still no succees. The borg could have been beaten ONLY by Ronin, because only Ronin were still allied with DWL, and it was the only chance to defeat either BoW or LG when DWL were to sitt out. But I couldn't do it at that time (I wanted a battle against BoW) because we were not yet sufficently well organized and when I felt I could do it (in the last week when I was still OM in Ronin) we were attacked. The battle I wanted to demonstrate that the borg could be defeated or if you want to call it, my dream was over even before to start. I had to leave the game because some RL problems and I couldn't declare against BoW. It should have been declared at the same time when I declared against ROME in W3 with MM. Both battles were scheduled at the same time, unfortunately I could not afford to declare against BoW with no money for mercs (which were spent in the previous defence). I think only Falco knew that Ronin is the key for a strong opposition and he kept us as allies to give a chance to a possible real threat to the borg. But of course, most probably I will never know the thruth and the reasons why he kept us, this is what I believe.

To Diablos: maybe you should read what Vedauwoo posted in the past... it seems you didn't read that otherwise you will not say such false things. Please read:
http://forum.holy-war.de/board/wbb_en/in…dark&#post98583
He made a clear evaluation of top 100 players and how many were not in the borg (because it was simpler that way :D )

To Bigger Phil: I agree with you.

To Cerno: sorry, Gamble said I am an idiot :D you guys should put yourself in good agreement as you were in the same order... now I see how bad organized were the borg members... :D (just joking)


If what I said was a lie then that means IGN got lied to by your own leadership within Dragon...which means you guys lie to and cant be trusted. And obviously the situation has changed so if you get both Elite and Px to agree to being allied to you you would keep them both. Different situations different decisions duh.

Im also not surprised youd say Illy did a good job of explaining things. You clump me and cerno together, but you along with everyone in W4 especially knows Illy is close to erialc as he sits her account along with many S-B accounts. Obviously he is going to agree with her and hold the same opinions, which last I checked erialc is your AC so not surprising hed hold the same opinions as you. Illy knows I think he is easily swayed by erialc.

Your attempt holds true with what Diablos stated. There were many strong members outside of the Borg. Some may have been friendly to us or inclined to help us at times, but they could have all been swayed to go against us and help topple us. DIE was only allied to LG for a short time and could have been instrumental in this topple, theyve helped take out BoW and DWL. Just because you didnt look at the big picture, which I think Lillian did by getting people from all faiths to face us, doesnt mean it couldnt have been because your attempt failed.

38

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 2:37am

This is my one and only post on the forums... I don't know Gamble... never did know him... so none of what I'm saying here is personal... but all of this reads to me like someone who screwed up and just can't admit it to himself, so he's lashing out in all directions. It's sad. Don't lower yourself any further, man. Suck it up and move on.
Carpe Jugulum

cerno

Beginner

Posts: 23

Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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39

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 2:57am

You have a few more than 1 post Ria :) More like 136 posts :)

40

Sunday, October 26th 2008, 2:59am

lol... the rest are all on the Mod forums, Cerno - not game politics
Carpe Jugulum