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Forge

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1

Sunday, July 1st 2012, 11:44pm

A better long-term model for HW:

Much talk has been given to the viability of HW in the long term, but I don't think a lot of THOUGHT has actually been put into it. Several times suggestions have been put forward for ways to have new players join established worlds, to supplement the forces already fighting there, without destroying the existing paradigms. In particular, the selling of pre-statted and pre-equipped accounts by GAS has been mentioned. GAS clearly does not like this idea.

The long-term issue is one of growth. A new player represents such an absurd percentage of an established account's stats that there is simply no point in combat between the two. You need to have invested approximately fifty percent as much time as your target before you can even hope for our current, absurd "random" to swing an occasional fight your way. To make this mark in some of the oldest worlds, you're talking about years or work to become a joke warrior, winning a small percentage of fights due to some Keystone Kops performance from your 'victim'. This is not attractive to new players, as a goal.

Others have suggested merging worlds, in various ways, and this seems to be the solution GAS is embracing. Even in the current tiered system, this is NOT a viable solution, only a delaying tactic.

I have a suggestion for another way. A simple change to the system that will allow an equilibrium, where new players can rise quickly enough to matter without years of work, where tixxers can spend hundreds of dollars to gain advantage, and all with minimal changes to the existing systems, and without completely invalidating the efforts put in already. Changes would need to be made to the equipment and horse stats, but that is optional. Even without those changes, this system would still work.

The system:

Every day at reset, each player loses stats. The exact number can be flexible, proportional, or flat, but should be somewhere in the range of 90-125% of what a day's "work" can provide. In some of the oldest worlds, this can be a single stat or less. In general you will want to take away close to what is added each day, to maintain balance. In the initial state, when some accounts have very, very high stats, you will want to take away proportionally more, to bring them into balance sooner. Some of the newest/youngest worlds will not need a great deal of reduction at all, just enough to keep them more or less where they are.

"How is this in any way fun, Forge?" you ask? Most players I've spoken to agree that the initial run-up from world opening to approx. level 50 is the 'best' or 'most fun' part of HW. In fact, many players join for this period only, then leave. This system captures and perpetuates that time period. New accounts will be able to quickly acheive stats comparable to long-term players (due to attrition keeping the oldest players within reach). It also penalizes players who stop playing for a time, or who simply leave, but in a balanced and fair way. Under this system, you can leave an account idle for literally YEARS, return, and quickly resume playing in a meaningful way. Players who show up every day, work hard, and stat like mad will determine battles. Players who choose to buy and spend tickets will have the advantage they want, either by outright buying the stats, or by buying elixirs they can resell, so they can stave off stat attrition longer than others. It will encourage the formation of truly friendly groups of players with similar commitment levels, rather than the lone-wolf plus followers type that are fairly common now.

I don't expect GAS to like this idea, but it's logical from their side as well. This attrition will make non-playing characters fade into obscurity quickly, lets players join and quickly excel, and still allows for the purchase of victory if desired. If anyone from GAS would like to discuss this concept further, I welcome any dialog, and you have my email addresses.
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erialc

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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 12:05am

After reading thiis, I'm liking the HWT solution of merge even better :)
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 12:18am

losing stats? really?

When you suggest losing stats that cost in excess of 100k gold a pop and more there is not one sane person that would agree to the system you have laid out. They made work pay a joke so even logging in a couple times a day to collect 8 hours work spending down on elixers then do it again is still even at level 100 or more is only gonna get ya like maybe 40k in resources which is not enough to raise even one stat every two days. I hope ya see the point if slapping off stats every day there would be no way to widdle down to what most half my level accounts are so no way would I endorse this plan nor do I think anyone else would. My stats are way too hard worked for since most worlds are non premium which makes it even harder.

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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 12:29am

Erialc - I respect that.

TPH - You're getting hung up on what YOU would lose. Everyone else would lose the same, you can still build up stats over time. This would bring stat costs DOWN in the long run, making the 'joke' of work pay less of a problem. Higher levels would still bring up work pay slowly, and bring up plunder gold, and you'd be buying more stats each day with those. I'm surprised at the response, I thought the tixxers would be most against it.

Start thinking of stats as a recurring expense instead of a purchase-and-done. Also, this will make long-term tixxing more expensive, and less sustainable, which I would have thought would be a huge appeal to you, TPH. As things are now, even the biggest English-speaker tixxers would be UTTERLY ANNIHILATED right after the merge. Sure, you'll be doing 2K damage per hit instead of a 'normal' player's 1K per hit in a battle, but that mad tixxer dood from RU1 is going to be doing 6-8K per hit, and you still don't matter.

Under this proposed system, he would be that huge for a finite amount of time, then he'd be spending more and more to maintain or slowly subsiding to a 'normal' stat range.
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 12:41am

funny thing about tixxers

The truly funny thing about tixxers is they feed their ego for a period of time and like a dog with a chew toy they tire and leave. Not to mention small fact that the english players are gonna show zero level of respect to any of the mega tixxers and probably say stuff to the contrary. Which if everyone hates ya in whatever world most arent gonna stick around. Just look at how many started out tixxers there are still left in the englsih worlds. Only one I know of is Sir Wazzo with a 500 str and there are more out there with 450+ stats but oh well I will keep on playing the way I do but if I cant progress and all I do is go back on stats heck I wont even stick around

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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 12:42am

A variant to consider:

Stats decay by 10% per day per stat, rounding down. This would cause everyone to decay rather rapidly to ~100 on all stats base, then when they drop to 99 on a stat, the round-down part means no further drop. This lets all players, even idle ones who aren't playing maintain a flat 99 on all stats with no work at all. You can even set decay rates based on the age of the world, so that the stat decay only affects folks who are above average, but this destroys the 'new players can quickly become relevant' part of the plan, so I'd advise against it.

Everyone sees 'stats drop over time' and freaks out, so far. What no one seems to want to see is that this will draw in new players. Would you rather have all stats at 900, in a dead world, with no other players or 1 or 2 others whose stats largely match yours?? World 4 says that this is not a sustainable plan. The other worlds are decaying as well, but the data point that is dropping is the number of active players, not the stats per player.

I don't mean to sound like I'm giving an ultimatum, but this model is sustainable, the current HW model is not. Things are already to the points where in some older worlds, you'd need to spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars, in the five digit range, to catch up, and at this point no one is willing. Alternately, you can work your way up, but you will NEVER catch an active player. Not on any timeline, ever. THAT kills new players. They trundle off to world 2 INT or whatever is newest, where the barrier is lowest. Under this proposed model, new players would join W1EN, and eventually even W1DE.

This would also slowly break down the market for accounts. Right now to play and matter in any of the old worlds, you MUST buy an account, or spend the aforementioned many thousands of dollars. Under the proposed model, you'd only have to join, start playing actively, and wait through a month or two of growth, at which point you'd catch up to the established player base.

Also, under the new model, some crazy internet guy (or gal) can join W1EN, spend 2K$ on tix for gold, and instantly surpass most of the established players. They wouldn't last long without continued cash infusions, though, so they'd get a month in the sun, then they just wouldn't matter any more, attrition would pull them back to baseline.

Seriously, why are we upset at the thought of a number on our account dropping? Everyone else's would too, and the higher they are, the faster they'd fall. In the end, hard work would make the players who excel long-term, which I *THOUGHT* was what we all respected and looked up to. TPH, honestly, you think the numbers of your stats are the most important thing?? Isn't that exactly the opposite of what you've been saying all these years about tixxing? Which is it? Are tixxers evil? Are your stats more important than the work that earned them???
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 1:21am

This started as a PM reply, but I think it summarizes things better than my initial post.


Ok, the short version, just the main points:

Your stats drop a little bit at reset every day. They drop more, the higher your stat is.

This would drag everyone down together. Folks who play every day would have, for example, all stats at around 100. Folks who play every other day would settle around 50, and anyone not playing for a month or more would quickly drop to 1 in all stats, plus whatever equipment bonuses.

You still get equipment and horse base stats, even at zero activity, so you don't have to truly start over. Still makes buying new equipment and horses, etc, make sense. You just start off higher.

That's the unpopular part. Here's the payoff:

New players can start in any world, and in a month to three, can matter. Their stats won't quite be as high as the permanent players, but they'll be close enough to be interesting. This brings in lots of new players, makes things exciting again, and it's a win for all of us, GAS (who gets money for prem), everyone wins.

Since the stats decay, we wouldn't have any more ridiculous accounts left after a year or so. Tixxers will need to tixx regularly if they want to keep stats above everyone else. Also, any given player can drop 50-200$ on tickets and become a major power for a little while, but it's not permanent. This part makes GAS happy.

Since you can start over with much less of a penalty, you can move worlds without as much headache. You just delete, and register somewhere else. Don't even have to delete, just let it decay to nothing, you drop from your order at 30 days, and you can start playing your account again later! This is a win for us.

Old worlds would light up again. If you can put in a month or two's hard work and be up with the top players, even at #30 or #40 by stats, you'll actually stick around. You'll see lots of new players joining. Holy battles will be interesting, not just a bonus payday and a lottery to see who's the biggest tixxer. This would be a win for everyone, in every world.
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 2:32am

My first FAQ:

1Q. What about horses? If they stay like they are, it'll just mean you tixx your horse and leave your personal stats low.

1A. Horses will decay just like player stats, down to their base values. This means you can't just tixx a horse to high stats and coast on that, but it still makes sense to buy a higher level horse, since they have higher base stats. This would also make it more difficult for a new player to go up against someone with a level 150 horse, but not impossible. I think this is pretty balanced, actually.

Edit: Actually, looking through the horse base stats, I think this would work perfectly. Even the highest level horses don't have ridiculous base stats, and should work well under this plan.
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9

Monday, July 2nd 2012, 2:36am

sounds good :thumbsup: would make it more fun :D
fear me death is coming:D 8o

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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 2:38am

FAQ #2:

2Q. Doesn't this penalize players that don't play every day? Doesn't it penalize non-premium players?

2A. Actually, I think this system is far more forgiving of occasional vacations or weeks off, while still discouraging them. Under the current system, if you skip a day, you're behind by one or two stats, and you'll likely never make those back up. Likewise, non-prem are constantly penalized under the current system, they make less by plunders, they work shorter periods, and just plain make less gold all around. This doesn't change under the new system, but one possibly exciting side effect occurs: If you play like a prem player does, you'll be lower stats all month long. If you buy a minimum level that keeps you relevant, and bank the rest into elixirs, you can boost your stats big time once a month or so. You can swing the battle for your order, or get a huge merc fee. Premium players can do the same, and twice as often.

Edit: I think this new mechanic is hard to abuse, and offers some exciting new strategy options.
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 10:07am

The problem that can and will arise and which I can see clearly is that nobody likes to lose something they worked for. It's not just about TPH getting hung up about what he loses....a lot of people will feel that way. In my experience, it's just the average view point when it gets to something like that: What I conquered, I want to keep. Period. Yes, others will lose the same, but that is not going to make my pain any less troubling. And the moment I actually paid for something I lose some time later, it's starting to be a real issue. Not only for the players, but also for the company. If we cross that line, the difference between "gameplay invention" and "stealing what I paid for" is getting thinner.


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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 4:21pm

Well, in that case HW is dead, just hasn't cooled off yet. I'll let everyone lose everything in one dramatic movement, when the playerbase drops low enough that GAS decides not to keep the servers open any longer.

My model may be unpopular, but the current model is unsustainable. We really need to start looking at long-term solutions now, rather than once things begin to collapse.
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Monday, July 2nd 2012, 5:10pm

I agree that long-term solutions are the name of the game. However, taking stats away from players who paid cash for raising them is not merely an unpopular idea, it is bordering on theft.


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14

Monday, July 2nd 2012, 8:20pm

A resetting world would be more palatable. When x number of players reach x level, the world resets and we start all over again.
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Tuesday, July 3rd 2012, 1:42am

A resetting world would be more palatable. When x number of players reach x level, the world resets and we start all over again.


Agree 100% I suggested this WAAAYYY back before Falcotron left and it had been suggested even before then. I remember a fairly organized discussion on the subject that most people liked, at least those who commented on it. Some concern for tixxing effect but that was pretty much it...
Even talked about speed worlds etc in combo with the resetting feature, and having a running total of world participation and results by player with some reward for winning various goals etc.

Oh well, on with the merge* :love:

*After another promo or two 8)
Just here to spread hate and discontent


OK, moving on now...

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Tuesday, July 3rd 2012, 7:41pm

I never liked the idea of resetting the worlds its similar to forges idea of taking stuff away...makes no sense to me...why doesn't HW go back to their original concept when the game was really good and tons of people played, obviously some of the recent changes have driven people away.
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Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 8:14am

I have a suggestion for another way. A simple change to the system that will allow an equilibrium, where new players can rise quickly enough to matter without years of work, where tixxers can spend hundreds of dollars to gain advantage, and all with minimal changes to the existing systems, and without completely invalidating the efforts put in already.
I have suggested a system to do just that, without taking away years of hard work that has been put in an account. You guys can read it in the thread: More xp and gold from PvP fights for lower level.

But if you don't want to spend more time reading that, here's a brief sum:

why new players won't come to an old world? because they cannot beat high level guys that have been there for years, no matter HOW HARD they (new players) work, since they only have 120 min of plunder (premium) or 60 min(nonprem).

There are only 5 ways that I know to gain those gold necessary to build up stats:
1. plunders/protect
2. Work
3. PvP hauling
4. Merc-ing
5. recruitment haul bonus.

you can forget number 5 as it is not significant. As for number for, no matter how good your stats are, I would say this will also be insignificant to rais enough gold for your stats.

Number three is potential. If you play long hours everyday, you can get as many fight as you want (of course premium can fight more than nonprem since they have an advantage of 5 minutes of waiting time) BUT, there are not many cows you can milk everyday.

Number 2 is for players that are not log in.

Number one is the main source of gold and xp we need, BUT like I said, they are limited to 12 times or 6 times a day, no matter HOW LONG you play everyday.

So my system is:
1. give more xp from PvP fight
2. give an extra gold for each xp we gain in PvP fights.

Actually those are not my original Idea (I think it's Margareth Perrin's idea)

Here are the detail
1. More xp
Rather than the current system, I would say :
1. 1 xp if you loose against higher level or same level
2. 2 xp if you win against same level
3. 3 xp if you win against high level
4. 4 xp if you win against a player 5 level or more higher than yours

2. More gold
for each xp from PvP fights you get a sum of gold, level wise. I would suggest an hour of work pay per xp.

This way if you are new comer or late starter ( like I am) you can catch up with the stat if you play LONG enough everyday. This will also put people LONGER in front of the screen if that's what GaS want.

The benefit are:
1. For new players it's obvious, they can catch up with the big guys if they put some descent effort to their account
2. For High level players, they can keep their account in a lively world (what's the point of being the strongest player in a world, if you are the only player that's left)
3. For GaS, more players, less world, which means: more money, and less maintenance cost.

Question
#1. If this system is also for high level, wouldn't it make them harder to catch up?

The answer is yes and no

Yes if they put on the same effort as the new players trying to catch, but it will be harder for high level to earn sufficient gold for their stats since it takes more gold for them to stats up, and if they are on top of the world, they will have less oponent to fight that will give out xp.

#2 wouldn't it take away the benefit of being premium?

The answer is NO

Because the premium can fight more often (every 5 minutes, nonprem every 15 minutes)

#3 What about the hauling rules (up to 10% of your beaten opponents gold)?

The gold from hauling will stay the same.

IF new player spent 5 to 6 hours playing everyday, you do the math!
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Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 9:50am

Quoted

quoted from " Ben The Dark Knight "
So my system is:
1. give more xp from PvP fight
2. give an extra gold for each xp we gain in PvP fights.

Actually those are not my original Idea (I think it's Margareth Perrin's idea)

Here are the detail
1. More xp
Rather than the current system, I would say :
1. 1 xp if you loose against higher level or same level
2. 2 xp if you win against same level
3. 3 xp if you win against high level
4. 4 xp if you win against a player 5 level or more higher than yours

2. More gold
for each xp from PvP fights you get a sum of gold, level wise. I would suggest an hour of work pay per xp.


I think this is a great idea !! It'll help smaller levels to grow faster :thumbsup:
Hope GASgame-development would consider this one 8o


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19

Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 11:49am

why doesn't HW go back to their original concept when the game was really good and tons of people played,


I agree. Most of the upgrades removed the game strategy and competitiveness. :thumbup:
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20

Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 3:20pm

While I have pondered on this alot and think some of the suggestions Forge has said would make things very competitive, in the end those who pay for prem and those who tix, would suffer the most in the end because of losing what they have worked for. And like a few have said no one wants to lose what they have struggled or paid to accomplish. Non prem's would benefit the most so paying to play would become unnecessary and games cannot live without some income coming in to them.

I agree with erialc also that the original dynamics of this game were the best. Some updates have been good to prevent certain issues like the sitting tool but a few have taken the competitive edge off like the 8 hrs work to heal and battle healing. I can so remember the days when I literally didn't have enough lix to participate in battle, so it was go to camp and heal or work and forget battle or pay out a tix for gold just to buy a few more lix to heal with! Those were the days when you had to login and worry about things and now there is no worry anymore....just work 8 hrs and pay for bh and poof you are good to go. Actually reduced time play for me in the end and think many others too.

The old game dynamics were the best! Then you really had to be strategic and you never knew who would win because pvp hits count and getting lp down made a difference in battles. Orders and allies worked hard together to wear down the other side and we all enjoyed it much more. Tixxers could still tix and get ahead. Was just much more exciting and more left to the unknown than there is now!
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Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 4:23pm

I have to agree with the ladies. WHile I have not been around since HW day one I have since W4. You had to stay on your toes, you carefully made sure to not pop in sb until you were safe after collecting work pay, battles were thought out and yeah pre-strikes were a must. While I do see the perks of BH and Protects I am not so sure i like it. you just catch as many battles within an hour of each other. hop in camp one and poof good to go for the nest few hours safe and no loss of lp when it is all over. As Lady V said. orders, allies and Mercs worked to wear down the opposing side so it would cost them loads of lix to make it to the battle in one piece. Pschological warfare was conducted in the sb, Crowing about hits made against the enemy, smack talking ect. Spread sheets were the norm not the exception so everyone on your side could keep up with when to hit player x. You had to work to level. not jsut protect 12 times then xp hunt. or buy extra protects. Ahh the good old days 8o
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22

Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 7:28pm

but all has an other side too... there are worlds that do battle marathons...they plan it very good...every hour one battle and they try to keep both sides even that everyone gets xp...
would not work without bh... ( i dont care for that much xp on one day myself but it has to be said some like exactly that)
but i used bh too... makes it easier to safe up lixx for stats or equip... if they will take this option away or not..i am fine with both

but this level protection..that is really annoying for cow hunters... and to hunt for cows is especially now,while all try to get ready for the merger,the only fun i have left in this game...
and i dont want read it anymore : you cant attack this player right now 8| :rolleyes: :cursing:

23

Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 8:11pm

i agree with it alll:D need to get rid of the 2 hr protection :) ..
fear me death is coming:D 8o

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Wednesday, July 4th 2012, 9:09pm

Let's get things back to track. This thread is about a system that would draw new players to the old world. I don't know about the Old system you guys are talking about, but from your talk I guess it will not draw new players to come to old world, where there are already high level players around.
Please be patient God is not finish with me yet :D

25

Thursday, July 5th 2012, 3:56am

This thread is about players being interested in a game ;) And the old system was one that drew many people and when it changed we lost alot of good players. People like to compete and the way it is now there really is no competition anymore. New players, same as the old players, liked that you had to think and use strategy and worry about what was more important, battle...lix....etc. Everything that is being said is as much a draw for new players as bringing back old players to the game again!
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Thursday, July 5th 2012, 1:53pm

This thread is about players being interested in a game And the old system was one that drew many people and when it changed we lost alot of good players. People like to compete and the way it is now there really is no competition anymore. New players, same as the old players, liked that you had to think and use strategy and worry about what was more important, battle...lix....etc. Everything that is being said is as much a draw for new players as bringing back old players to the game again!


:thumbsup: Exactly my point :thumbsup:
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Forge

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27

Thursday, July 5th 2012, 10:15pm

This thread is about players being interested in a game ;) People like to compete and the way it is now there really is no competition anymore.


I think you're halfway there, but missing some key details.

When the top players in a world are level 50 and you join, you can (mistakenly) believe that you will catch up. After a few months, you'll be within 20 levels of the top and you'll start to matter.

When the top players in a world are level 150 and you join, you'd have to totally misunderstand levelling and XP, be mentally deficient, or just plain crazy to stick around and play. You're looking at YEARS instead of MONTHS until you matter, and I sincerely doubt anyone joining today would seriously consider that.

Most "new" players joining older worlds are just looking to hang out, and never matter (Yo!), or they have some weird 'system' where they level from 0-80 rather quickly, and want to refine it more, and you have quite a few who just don't understand levelling and stats in HW, and think that their character will magically catch up to the level 150, 400-500 stat monsters, if they just play hard enough. No serious player is going to join W1EN at this point, there's no way to catch up without just buying an account. No amount of hard work will make the XP or GP needed. It's possible, but exceedingly unlikely, that some crazy tixx monster could join W1EN, pay many thousands of dollars, burn thousands of tixx, and become instant XP hero in every battle for a long time. I don't see that happening, though, tixxers know it's far cheaper to start with a pre-levelled account, and build on top.

Something else to consider before dismissing this, Apex; it would greatly decrease the need for new players to buy existing accounts. In fact, once it's set up and established, and most worlds have reached equilibrium, you could outright disallow the buying and selling of accounts, and I doubt anyone would protest.

We've already run too far to continue the marathon model. We need to convert to a treadmill in one way or another, or you'll have to close HW eventually. Don't you like getting paid?
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Forge

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28

Thursday, July 5th 2012, 10:19pm

Reply-PS-edit-thing:

If you still have doubts, make it an experiment. The code changes needed would be very very minimal. Start up beta.holy-war.net, form International Beta 1 there. Put the decay model in place, let it run 6 months. Compare the number of active players, orders, etc, to an equivalent set of stats from Int 2. I bet you it would be *more* popular, not less.
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Thursday, July 5th 2012, 10:54pm

We have to face it, the way GaS has promoted and encouraged the use of Tix in HW has in many ways eliminated the competative edge from the game


We have battle healing - that emininated to huge disadvatage of loosing a battle
We have full healing after 8 hr work - that eliminated the point of pre-strikes
We have frequent Tix promotions - that negated hard work
We have massively increased Tix Gold value - this made high level Tix more viable


I could draw a parallel to a hugely popular village based game that doesnt not support artificial power increase through money - that game continues to grow and prosper and they dont continually change the structure of the game either

Perhaps there is a lesson that GaS could learn from that game.........

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Friday, July 6th 2012, 11:16am

I think you're halfway there, but missing some key details.

When the top players in a world are level 50 and you join, you can (mistakenly) believe that you will catch up. After a few months, you'll be within 20 levels of the top and you'll start to matter.

When the top players in a world are level 150 and you join, you'd have to totally misunderstand levelling and XP, be mentally deficient, or just plain crazy to stick around and play. You're looking at YEARS instead of MONTHS until you matter, and I sincerely doubt anyone joining today would seriously consider that.
This is exactly my point LadyVos :thumbsup:
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Tuesday, July 10th 2012, 9:15am

We have to face it, the way GaS has promoted and encouraged the use of Tix in HW has in many ways eliminated the competative edge from the game


We have battle healing - that emininated to huge disadvatage of loosing a battle
We have full healing after 8 hr work - that eliminated the point of pre-strikes
We have frequent Tix promotions - that negated hard work
We have massively increased Tix Gold value - this made high level Tix more viable
  • BH has made HW nothing more than an XP race. However, this is only valuable in INT worlds.
  • 8 hr healing combined with max damage dealt to low levels has eliminated prestrikes, so why bother staying logged in? Simply log in right before battle, collect, spend down, and go to camp
  • Tix promos are, well, tix promos and they're never going to go away. Increased gold per tix has the same effect.

Additional issues are:
  • Increase in damage dealt @ similar level. I remember spending literally all day on HW doing XP hits to catch up in level. Now, you're dead after 3-4 hits, so you log off to work for 8 hours.
  • Work pay decrease. You used to log in every 8 hours to collect pay and stat up, plus plunder for 1-2 hours. Now, I don't bother collecting pay half the time unless I have plunders because I lose more in buying lix that often than just collecting to do plunders and get a stat.
  • 2 hour protection. I'm not top level in most worlds I play, so you would think I'd love this protection. But, I'm not a cow, so I don't get hit that often anyway. There's 2 players in one world that I haven't been able to hit in over 2 months, and I used to check them 3 to 4 times a day (at various times). I don't know how that's even possible. :evil:

    Getting back to Forge's original thoughts....
    The problem that can and will arise and which I can see clearly is that nobody likes to lose something they worked for. It's not just about TPH getting hung up about what he loses....a lot of people will feel that way. In my experience, it's just the average view point when it gets to something like that: What I conquered, I want to keep. Period. Yes, others will lose the same, but that is not going to make my pain any less troubling. And the moment I actually paid for something I lose some time later, it's starting to be a real issue. Not only for the players, but also for the company. If we cross that line, the difference between "gameplay invention" and "stealing what I paid for" is getting thinner.


    CApeX
    This is the only online game I've played where you don't lose anything over time. Even Cafe World on Facebook, you lose your dishes if you don't collect. I played Evony when it first came out and it was sickening how much money people spent on that game just to have someone bigger and badder come along and steal 90% of their resources. So, don't tell me people won't pay to play a game where they lose what they paid for. What Forge is trying to get at is THIS GAME IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. The only way they can draw in new players and increase revenue is to create new worlds. You can't keep that up forever.

    The last time I brought up this issue, they came out with the tourney's, which I looked forward to each week, but now rarely register as I have only made the 2nd round and beyond less than 50% of the time.

    A resetting world would be more palatable. When x number of players reach x level, the world resets and we start all over again.
    I never liked the idea of resetting the worlds its similar to forges idea of taking stuff away...makes no sense to me...why doesn't HW go back to their original concept when the game was really good and tons of people played, obviously some of the recent changes have driven people away.
    I saw these resetting worlds as more of a supplement to the main game. Perhaps you would play these "challenge" worlds and your reward would be transferable to another world you play, but it was mentioned that if you won one challenge, you could get an advantage when the next one started.
    Here are the detail
    1. More xp
    Rather than the current system, I would say :
    1. 1 xp if you loose against higher level or same level
    2. 2 xp if you win against same level
    3. 3 xp if you win against high level
    4. 4 xp if you win against a player 5 level or more higher than yours

    2. More gold
    for each xp from PvP fights you get a sum of gold, level wise. I would suggest an hour of work pay per xp.

    This way if you are new comer or late starter ( like I am) you can catch up with the stat if you play LONG enough everyday. This will also put people LONGER in front of the screen if that's what GaS want.
    This was also suggested before in various forms. I think this would be ideal. Maybe even go further with the amount of XP you gain so you lower levels can catch up faster.

    In summary, what Forge is driving at is that many players don't want to lose what they've put in for years, but you have to balance that with bringing in new challengers. In many MMO's, you can power level and do more quests, or do quests with higher level players to level faster. Then the point shifts from being the biggest baddest player on the server, to helping your friends catch up so you can work or fight together. Overall, wouldn't you rather have 20+ order mates which you helped become dominant players, than be sitting at the top of the HW mountain all alone? :huh: Think about it.
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32

Monday, July 16th 2012, 9:58pm

Quoted from "Ben The Dark Knight"
Here are the detail
1. More xp
Rather than the current system, I would say :
1. 1 xp if you loose against higher level or same level
2. 2 xp if you win against same level
3. 3 xp if you win against high level
4. 4 xp if you win against a player 5 level or more higher than yours

2. More gold
for each xp from PvP fights you get a sum of gold, level wise. I would suggest an hour of work pay per xp.

This way if you are new comer or late starter ( like I am) you can catch up with the stat if you play LONG enough everyday. This will also put people LONGER in front of the screen if that's what GaS want
Would like to know the opinion of mod or super mod or whatever on this matter :D
Please be patient God is not finish with me yet :D

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33

Tuesday, July 17th 2012, 9:02am

As someone labeled as "whatever", let me allow to tell you that the suggestions will be wrapped up into a nice bundle and send to those who are making such decisions. Neither the mods, nor the super mods or the 'whatevers' here on the forum will be able to decide upon anything. And all it would do for me to state my personal opinions regarding suggestion would be upset faces, one way or another, because either I am not acknowledging the genius behind a suggestion, or I do, but the devs don't....and then I made 'a promise' that will not see the light of day and the suggestor hates my face. Not going to risk that.

Therefore: Wrapped up bundle. Dev package. Thank you very much!


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Wednesday, July 18th 2012, 6:01pm

And all it would do for me to state my personal opinions regarding suggestion would be upset faces, one way or another, because either I am not acknowledging the genius behind a suggestion, or I do, but the devs don't....and then I made 'a promise' that will not see the light of day and the suggestor hates my face. Not going to risk that.
No worry, I completely understand that (been in that position more than once :D )
Please be patient God is not finish with me yet :D

Forge

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35

Wednesday, July 18th 2012, 9:21pm

the suggestions will be wrapped up into a nice bundle and send to those who are making such decisions.


Please, feel free to summarize, wrap up, and deliver the responses/feedback in such a manner as well. While I know you're doing your job, it often feels like all of GAS who is not actively corresponding here is a brick wall. We receive no feedback, news, or anything, except through you and DE.
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Tuesday, August 14th 2012, 3:05pm

I don't doubt you, Captain. However, I feel that sometimes things may be lost in translation. Forge is right. This seems like a one-way process. When there's no clue whether an idea is received (by dev's) positively or negatively (or somewhere in between), we will never feel included in the process.

There are patches implemented that were either directly influenced or similar to a suggestion I may have made, but I don't know if it was because of me, or someone else on the English forum, or perhaps from one of the mainland European servers. I'm not asking for direct credit, and I don't think the other players making suggestions are either, but to at least hear of some level of acceptance or rejection of our ideas would encourage us to continue assisting GAS in finding better ways to suit their customers.
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37

Wednesday, August 15th 2012, 11:36am

Hi Caradoc, I can appreciate this being somewhat frustrating, not knowing how suggestions are received. It's like shooting an arrow into a cloud. You never know if you've hit anything.

BUT as I'm sure you can imagine, it would be rather tedious if every time a suggestion was made, the devs had to come ALL the way down the hallway to Support and say: "This was good, we'll do that. This one, not so much". Especially when you consider that we get about 50 suggestions in the English worlds alone every day. Add all the other languages to that and that's basically a marathon.

Anywho, if you've made a suggestion which is then implemented, you can see it in the patch notes and tell everyone "That was my idea!" even if 2 French guys actually thought of it first. But no-one in the English worlds needs to know that ;) What normally happens, however, is that a player makes a great suggestion which is implemented the next month, by which time the player has forgotten all about it and says "Well duh! I told you to do that aaaaaaaaaages ago and did you listen? No!"

Well, actually, we did. It just ain't gonna happen overnight.

In any case, Support will give you realistic feedback of whether your suggestion is valid or not, but that's all we can offer. Take it or leave it.

Cheers!
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38

Wednesday, August 15th 2012, 4:01pm

but that's all we can offer. Take it or leave it.



is that some kind of attitude towards the customers?Cause i'm pretty good at it too.



why just take it or just leave it,that's why i suggest things,it's not that hard to comprehend
Instead of proposing a penalty, Socrates instead proposes a reward for himself: as benefactor to Athens, he should be given free meals in the Prytaneum, one of the important buildings which housed members of the Council.





And that's why tixxers should pay my premium.

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Wednesday, August 15th 2012, 5:20pm

Just wondering how hard it would be for the devs, after looking at the rolled up and tied with a pretty bow package of suggestions, to email the support people and say "These look like something we could work on", "These are interesting but not sure we can implement", "These are total bull droppings which we've ignored these past 6 years and will continue to ignore", and "These look like something from *insert other G@S game* and they should go play that instead".
They are on their computers most of the day I presume any way so no need for them to get up, trudge the 50 or so feet down the hall, bumping into each other and making nerdy programmer jokes.* Just pop an email out.**
Some of the suggestions everyone knows would be complicated to implement, while some seem so simple to us novice PAYING customers and we never see any response good or bad...
So THIS is the suggestion:
1) Compile your list of suggestions as you said you do
2) Number them 1-20 or whatever
3) Ask the devs to comment with Number and response (grouping allowed of course to make it easier on them from having to type the same response 12 times)
4) Post back to the PAYING customers their thoughts on the matter
8)

*Why does my homework have all 0's on it? Your dog took a byte out of it before you turned it in!! :wacko:
**Or whatever communication method G@S employs: Smoke signals, Flag Waving, morse code etc etc
Just here to spread hate and discontent


OK, moving on now...

40

Thursday, August 16th 2012, 11:43am

Ozz: What I meant was you can either have Support's opinion of the suggestion, which will tell you how possible/likely it is to be done, or you can have no feedback whatsoever. Hence take it or leave it.

I will now borrow CapeX's tongue to reiterate:

Quoted

Neither the mods, nor the super mods or the 'whatevers' here on the forum will be able to decide upon anything. And all it would do for me to state my personal opinions regarding suggestion would be upset faces, one way or another, because either I am not acknowledging the genius behind a suggestion, or I do, but the devs don't....and then I made 'a promise' that will not see the light of day and the suggestor hates my face. Not going to risk that.


itsjustme: I will carry out steps 1-3 as requested tomorrow, and see if 4 ever materialises...;)

But remember:

Quoted

The developers know the forum and read it when their time allows it. Of course we can explicitely go and ask them to come here, but they are a bunch of shy genius' to begin with. They would just fall victim to certain people's charme on here. I will still go and ask them, if that is pleasing you.

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