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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 11:27pm

Count Freyja in but I would rather not change religions.



Posts: 136

Location: Minneapolis, Mn

Occupation: Sales Consultant, Hockey Coach

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Tuesday, November 3rd 2009, 12:00am

What about only allowing the original 10 team to be comprised of only Lv89 and below. Randomly assigned each team an opponent.

-Winners would be randomly placed in a 1-5 order, and losers 6-10. Now is when they would draft their "calvary" pieces (Lv90-92)

-Repeat this process, but now in reverse fashion. Place the losing
teams into the 1-5 slots, and the winning teams into 6-10. Then draft
the "artillery" Lv93+.

This should offer a well-balanced battle field once the game begins.

Question: what about eliminated teams? Where is their motivation once
eliminated? Maybe play two boards. Once a team wins, the champ moves up
to board one, while the last place team moves down to board two.

Question: Volunteers, what level grouping would be here? Maybe the top
ten statted players should be the volunteers. We should be able to
balance out any "gate crashers."

This is a great concept, my only problem is I'm a detail person. Damn OCD :D
w2-Hobo Monk *dead*
w4-HxAx :thumbup:
w6-Heretic_Anthem *dead*
w7-non-premium POS
Thank you drive through.



Posts: 9

Location: North America

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Tuesday, November 3rd 2009, 12:00am

I'm in, but I wouldn't want to change faiths. Let me know what I need to do.

Posts: 3,022

Location: San Francisco, CA, US

Occupation: Software Developer/Musician

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Tuesday, November 3rd 2009, 1:51am

This is a great concept, my only problem is I'm a detail person. Damn OCD :D
That means you're drafted to help TBK organize everything and keep it running. :P

As for your ideas, you're talking about planning out three complete rounds of the game? I think that'll take way too long, especially since a good number of the motivated people aren't going to get to play until round 3. I still think erialc was right, we have to jump in full-on as soon as possible.

For volunteers, I think the idea was that we don't have any; you merc (at minimum?) as many people as you would get armies in Risk, and that's it. But keeping extra volunteers ready to counteract gatecrashers as you suggested sounds like a great idea. Everyone who isn't in either order and wasn't hired as a merc and will be on in time for the battle should contact whoever's in charge of organizing to sign up as a balancer, and be ready to be asked to volunteer as needed.

Posts: 3,022

Location: San Francisco, CA, US

Occupation: Software Developer/Musician

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Tuesday, November 3rd 2009, 2:23am

I was thinking that maybe a "post draft" trading day might mitigate the need for some players to switch faiths. True, you couldn't do a multi-player trade if it brought your order below 5 members but I wasn't sure what scope was being contemplated.
I think minimizing faith changes, balancing teams optimally, and giving captains a choice are all goals that work against each other. People are going to want to trade to strengthen their team, and that will rarely (well, maybe 1/3rd of the time) match up with reducing faith changes. Imagine you had 3 Pagans and TBK, while I had 3 Saracens and bezza. I'm sure you love bezza as much as I do, but would you want to make that trade?

TBK was obviously hoping that people would be willing to drop the faith-change constraint if a few of us chipped in for all of the necessary tix so it didn't cost them anything, but it doesn't look like that's going to work out.

If we're willing to drop the captain-choice constraint, then it's not that hard to write a little program to optimize the teams. Anyone who doesn't care about the math, stop reading now.

The easiest way to balance the two constraints is to drop the draft and just use a global optimization algorithm. We have to work out the tradeoff--how far can the average team get from the middle* before it's worth spending a faith change. And we need a global metric--someone with 900 "points" has to be worth 90% as much as someone with 1000 points. That's the hard part; I don't think just adding up stats gives a very good metric, because someone with 900 total stats is definitely not worth 90% as much as someone with 1000, even ignoring their levels. But I don't know of a good one.

We can avoid the metric problem by using an automated draft instead. Because that only requires local optimization, it doesn't matter much if the metric is skewed; If you end up with a 998 and a 1001, while I get a 900 and a 1000, who cares? But that makes it much harder to do the tradeoff; the change penalty I suggested above isn't that good, and I can't think of anything better.

* If anyone wants precision, I'm talking about the mean absolute variance, not the mean variance, which is of course always 0.


Tuesday, November 3rd 2009, 3:55pm

I'm in :)

Woops I'm Sir James by the way ;)




Friday, November 6th 2009, 11:54pm

I don't get it!

I have played a lot of risk as a kid. Suppose we had 6 players. An average of 3 to 6 battles per turn per player. And up upwards of 50 to 100 turns in a game.

Just doing the math and Holy risk gets to be a several year endeavor.

TBK, you should run a simulation or two and determine how the game would really go. How is the end game when 2 teams are left and can only hit each other once per week?

Sit down with a risk board at a minimum and calculate the time to actually play Holy Risk with what you have laid out. I think you need to define the play just a little better so that people know what time will be involved.


Saturday, November 7th 2009, 1:49am

I am in. I don;t care about faith so long as I am not xtian or saracen. :P jk don't care for real but I am not volunteering to be captain. let the number crunchers and those college kids that have time be the captains. So of us have to work to pay for snell's faith changes



Posts: 71

Location: Syracuse New york

Occupation: sheet metal worker

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Saturday, November 7th 2009, 5:58am

Question: "What are the twelve tribes of Israel?"

The Bible lists the twelve tribes of Israel in several locations: (Genesis 35:23-26; Exodus 1:2-5; Numbers 1:20-43; 1 Chronicles 2:2; Revelation 7:5-8). It is
interesting that there are slight differences in some places. The 12 sons of
Israel (Jacob) were: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin,
Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher and Joseph. These were the ancestors of the original
twelve tribes. However, Reuben lost his rights as firstborn by defiling Jacob’s
bed (Genesis 35:22; 49:3-4). In Reuben and Joseph's place,
Joseph’s two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, became tribes of Israel (Genesis 48:5-6). As a
result, the twelve tribes became Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun,
Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim and Manasseh. In some other lists
of the twelve tribes of Israel, Levi is not mentioned, presumably because the
Levites were assigned to serve at the temple and therefore were not apportioned
land of their own in Israel (Joshua 14:3).



Posts: 71

Location: Syracuse New york

Occupation: sheet metal worker

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Saturday, November 7th 2009, 6:00am

i for some reason cannot get the image of the map up so ill pm TBK the address and maybe he can




Saturday, November 7th 2009, 6:12am

im in it sounds very interesting :D can i stay as xtain though :thumbsup:

The Black Knight



Saturday, November 7th 2009, 6:44am

The forum and chat room are now officially online. Forum is at Chat room is at www.tiny

Please register with your character name from w4 so that I know who's playing. Once you register on the forum, I have to activate your account, so once you register, please let me know via PM there.


Saturday, November 7th 2009, 3:02pm

I'm in :D



Posts: 1

Location: Ohio

Occupation: industrial computer control systems

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Saturday, November 7th 2009, 8:13pm

TBK you can count Melkor13 in on your Risk scheme
" Does wisdom perhaps appear on the earth as a raven which is inspired by the smell of carrion?" -Nietzche

The Black Knight



Saturday, November 7th 2009, 8:32pm

Go register on the proboards forum: We're moving the discussion over there, so it's imperative that you sign on and check it out.

And thanks! :)

The Black Knight



Sunday, November 8th 2009, 2:20am

A couple points for everyone:

If you aren't registered on the Holy Risk forum, we're going to assume you aren't playing. No offense whatsoever is intended, but asking you to register for the game if you're going to play is a very minor request that takes almost no time whatsoever. It also gives us one central location to keep track of all the members, allowing us to organize this much more easily. "Bob sent me a PM to say he and his buddy Sam are going to play" becomes extremely problematic when we go back later and ask Sam and he doesn't remember agreeing to any of that. Also, it's much easier to look at a member list and see 24 members signed up (so far) and know that we're probably about halfway there to a smaller game or 1/3-1/4 of the way to the full game.

Once you register, please go to the "Roll Call" thread, cast your vote, and post a reply.

Please send Freddy Johns a PM to let him know you've registered, and he'll activate your account. He will also be keeping a spreadsheet of all the participants, so that we can get draft day going.

All other Holy Risk-related news will be on the forum! Please go register!

And thank you to everyone for their interest :)

The Black Knight



Thursday, November 12th 2009, 9:55am

Suggested teams are listed on the forum now. See my profile (in w4) for location.

Now we just need a map.